I’m your host, Matt Blackburn. Today I’m speaking with Philip Wilson of Relax Far-Infrared Saunas.

I’ve actually encountered Wilson numerous times at various health conferences over the years, mostly in my raw vegan days or vegetarian days, when I would say I was quite lost. But we all have our journey, and everyone finds their way to what works eventually. I would always look at Wilson’s little booth he had set up with all the saunas and all the people sitting in them and smiling, and I was always drawn to his setup there. I don’t think I actually ever sat in one. Like most booths, I would kind of just roll my eyes. As he mentions in this talk, people would just, you know, turn up their nose and just walk past. And, you know, I don’t blame people for doing that. A lot of these conferences, most of the devices there at cancer summits, etc., are just bogus hogwash. They don’t work. They’re just pseudoscience, you know— a lot of really flashy language and marketing, but not a lot of substance there.

But that’s not the case for the Relax Sauna. I think Philip just understands how to get the word out there, and he’s been to a lot of conferences. I think he told me he’s 71 now— a lot of spunk, very energetic— and I think it’s largely because of his daily sauna use. He goes into the technology that’s in this sauna, how it differs from the other ones. And my history with sauna use is quite extensive because saunas and alkaline diet and veganism and plant-based— that all kind of goes together. But over the years, sauna therapy and sweating has even gotten its way into the paleo circles and rewilding and multiple different circles.

I talked to Philip about how it’s really light therapy. It’s really light therapy when we talk about a sauna. And people don’t think about that because when they think of a sauna, they might think of a traditional steam sauna that you would see at a gym or something. But to me, that’s not a true sauna as far as the benefits that we need in today’s context of what we’re dealing with now with non-native EMFs, which we go into— on how light therapy can help to strengthen your cells.

And Philip’s just a wealth of knowledge. He talks about the four beneficial effects of far-infrared radiation, and it goes way beyond just sweating. And just sweating alone— you’re getting out, as we talk about, phthalates and heavy metals. And I’ve read radioactive particles can actually get out of your body— that, which is just incredible. But there’s actually the structuring of the water, which he briefly alludes to near the end, with Gerald Pollack’s work on structuring the water in your body. And there’s a great book called The Fourth Phase of Water where he goes into this, and the different wavelengths have different effects.

And so, I’m a fan of actually using visible red and invisible red and ultraviolet light. And you don’t have to use devices for these. Obviously, if you live in Southern California, you live in a desert, you can go outside and sweat and get the same thing from the sun. But you just have to realize you’re also going to be getting UV light that can potentially cause photo damage, and usually does cause damage in the tissues because you have lipofuscin and complex polyunsaturated fats, iron, estrogen, and other things that actually increase your ability to get a sunburn and to get free radical damage from sunlight— from ultraviolet light specifically.

So the benefit of these devices— it’s not that we’re playing God, or we like having all these toys or making things really complicated. We’re using tools in context, intelligently, for specific situations. And so, if I do back-to-back-to-back podcasts— let’s say four to five recordings in one week— or I just got back from a conference, or there’s just times when I’ve just talked non-stop and used my voice a lot more than normal, I’m gonna use a tool like a far infrared sauna to get me back on track within an hour, versus having to take two to three days to recover.

It’s just an acceleration tool for recovery. That’s what I’ve really found. And I’ll let Philip get into the details here. So enjoy the show.

Hey, we’re here with Philip Wilson. Welcome to the show.

Welcome. I’m glad to be here. It’s always fun to tell people how wonderful the Relax Sauna is and what it can do to transform a person’s life and their health.

Yeah, absolutely. I found you actually, I think when I was raw vegan years ago. I’m sure I saw you at five or six of the conferences. I used to make the rounds down in the San Diego, yeah, LA area. And I think it was the Raw Living Expo, probably like seven or eight years ago I saw you there.

We were at the one— and I would always— sorry, go ahead.

We were at the one in Westgate— or not Westgate, but West— West in LA. We were at one in LA, and the— not sure, I think the west part of LA, like near Glendale. They had a raw food festival there. And then we were at the Sedona one a couple times as well, and Santa Barbara. That was about ten years ago— 2009. But I think it was the one in LA that we were at.

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, it was the Glendale area. And I don’t— there are so many things at those conferences that I just kind of shake my head, roll my eyes. Every time I would see you— see your booth— I’m like, there’s something to it.

And I’ve been studying light therapy pretty intensely for the last six to seven years and read a ton of books. Into the Light is one of my favorites. Just a lot of clinical research on different wavelengths of light. And I didn’t— I never made the connection that what you’re doing— it’s heat, but it’s really light therapy, right? I mean—

Yes, it’s light therapy. And I’ve been in the inner sound and inner light for 50 years now. So, you know, there’s a— there’s something very special about light. Very special. Especially the frequency of the far infrared light.

Yeah, yeah. And I definitely want to— want to jump into that. I still have a YouTube video up from years ago when I was living in an RV. I was renting from my friends and I— from Home Depot— PVC pipe, like, you know, that— what is it— Dr.— is it Dr.

Wilson that promotes the near-infrared light? Yes, like the chicken. Yeah, yeah, that’s right. It gets confusing. But I had four of those heat bulbs— the 250 watt— and I’m sure that was a ton of electricity. But I would just sit in that naked before and after work, and I was working long hours back then, just grinding. And I did feel like it benefited me, and I feel it felt like it was safer than the sun, because you can get UV damage, right? And that’s what a lot of people don’t realize— that’s where the benefit of these devices come in. If you really need to target, right?

Yeah, it’s concentrated. It’s so much more far infrared than the sun gives. And it— but the sun, I still love the sun. But the far infrared floodlight from the Relax Sauna is very unique and special, as we’ll elaborate in the next hour.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was looking through your website, and you highlight that there are computer-programmed ceramic semiconductor chips, yeah, throughout all of the non-healing light rays. That— that’s pretty cool.

Well, that was a real dilemma way back, about, you know, 30 years ago or 40 years ago, when they created the Relax Sauna. From 1987 to 1997 they struggled with how to get the near infrared out— the vibration rate— out of the frequency, and how to get the mid infrared out. Because see, water is a far infrared molecule. It vibrates at 8 microns. And the Relax Sauna sends off the energy of 4 to 14 microns only, which is 4,000 to 14,000 nanometers to those who speak that language.

And we as humans vibrate at 9.6 microns. Water is at 8 microns. So the water cells— it’s like astrology, it’s conjunct. It’s the same energy. The water is the same energy, and our bodies are the same energy as the light being emitted. So because it’s coming at us and we don’t see it as different from us, we don’t try to resist it. And the resistance is the opposite of absorption.

And so the Relax Sauna, being 95–99% far infrared energy— and it took them 10 years to figure out how to do that— it’s like they had an aha moment. It’s like in the invention of the sewing machine, he had a dream and he was shown. And I believe the people in Taiwan had an aha moment or they were shown, and they don’t even realize the impact of their invention. Because when you’re in the Relax Sauna, you experience the Chi.

And I don’t— like Dr. Bill Akpinar, he wrote a book called No Sweat— N-O sweat, No Sweat / Know Sweat— you know, basically Reclaiming Your Health: The Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Your Health. And it’s all about the history of sweating. And he quotes Hippocrates in there, saying, “Find me a way to create sweat and/or fever, and I will cure disease.” Not that I might, not that I could, but that I will. And that’s— that’s the secret.

Because when you— with the far infrared energy, since it’s the same energy as the water cells and the organic cells of your body and all mammals, it’s absorbed and it causes the water cells to pulsate. So what does far infrared do? It does one thing only. And near infrared doesn’t do this. Mid infrared doesn’t do it. Only far infrared resonates with the water cells— that’s all it does. And the resonating of the water cells— it’s like love. It’s like divine love.

You just sit there, and it’s the same energy as you, so you just absorb it. And it causes your water cells to pulsate. The resonating causes the water cells to pulsate. So if every cell in your body— and hence every organic cell in your body, not any titanium rods, not any heart pumps, none of that is affected— only the water and organic cells start pulsating. That’s like a hundred people in a small room dancing. It’s gonna get hot.

So that’s the key to increasing, you know, body temperature— is another way of saying it’s gonna create a fever. And it’s just a temporary fever. You get out, and 20 minutes later, you don’t have a fever. So it causes the water— the increase in core temperature in the body.

Now what does that do when you have a fever? Well, naturally, when I was a kid and I’d have my three-day cold or flu— you know, that’s just the way it worked. And after the second day or the third day, I’d wake up totally soaked in bed but feeling incredible. And so the sweating gets the toxins out.

See, there’s a book by Tilden from the maybe the 1930s. He said the cause of all disease is toxemia. So the cause of all disease is when you get toxins built up in your body— in a natural environment.

And you and I are both— I mean, I’ve— you know, right now I do a lot of raw foods. I’m mostly vegan now. I’ve been, you know— it’s like the body chemistry changes. And when the body chemistry changes, you don’t want to be stubborn. You want to listen. And we can’t be attached to any particular discipline.

Like, I experimented with macrobiotics. I was a fruitarian for a while, back in the ’70s in my early 20s. And then all of a sudden there’s a shift. And you— if you’re tuned in— see, a corner turns. You know, I was meditating once and they said, “A corner turns.” And you— you have to listen.

And I was even given the phrase: momentum. Taking advantage of the moment— propelling yourself into greatness. And that means— that’s different than living in the moment. When you take advantage of the moment, it means you’re living in the moment and listening to that inner nudge, that inner guidance.

Because when the rules change— when you graduate from high school and you’re in college— the rules change. You can’t act like a high school senior. You have to act like a college freshman. And this is part of all life. You go from one plateau to the next plateau, and— and it’s like a step function. And— and all of a sudden it’s like you die from being a college senior and you’re born— I mean, from being a high school senior— and you’re born to being a college freshman. And that’s the process.

And Rumi said in his poetry, “When have I ever been less by dying? I died as a mineral, I became a plant. I rose to animal, then I became a human. What makes me think I shall ever be less than dying?” And with every death, there’s a rebirth. So death is the beginning of life. And people are afraid of it. And that’s what drives me crazy.

You know, because fear— when— if you know— if you have love in your heart for all life, then fear can’t exist.

And that’s what happens when you get in the Relax Sauna. All your water cells start pulsating. You start— and I haven’t figured it out yet— but you either birth lymphocytes, you know, because of the warmth— it’s like the heat creates them— or you activate them. They come out of hiding.

And the lymphocytes are the white blood cells, or whatever you want to call the essential part of the immune system. They go and do their job and get anything that’s foreign to the body and get rid of them. They either eat them up or they expel them through the lymphatic system.

And— and that’s the beauty of what the Relax Sauna does. It does— see, again, it does one thing: it resonates with the water cells, which causes the water cells to pulsate. And then from that, you have four— four effects.

Like the first one I explained: you mobilize the immune system. And that gets the toxins out of the body.

Now, the problem with some detoxification formulas is they get the toxin maybe out of the liver or the lung or wherever, but then you don’t have enough oomph to get it out of the body. And so whatever doctor protocol you’re working on— if you then get into the Relax Sauna, that will mobilize the lymph. And instead of playing musical chairs, where the toxin gets out of the lung and settles in the kidney, you keep it going and it gets out of the body— through the sweat, through the urine, or through the colon, and even through the lungs. And that’s really important.

So the mobilizing of the lymphatic system is number one.

Number two— you could say it increases the microcirculation. And that’s because the pulsating in the water molecules gets the hydrogen and oxygen cell— the angle between the two hydrogens and the oxygen— the oxygen is the vertex of the angle— and the pulsating in the water molecule causes the water cell to get smaller. You get smaller water cells. You get smaller blood cells. So it’s really, really exciting.

So therefore, you increase the microcirculation. And that’s why people who go in the Relax Sauna— and this isn’t true for all the other saunas. It is true to an extent, but, you know— maybe— you know, like a 22-inch bicycle with training wheels will still get to the grocery store, but it won’t be as pleasant as a 26-inch professional bike.

So we were at a Lyme conference in Boston a couple years ago, and this one lady had Lyme disease for two and a half years. And as a result of the Lyme disease, she had a neuropathy. She had no feeling in her fingers and her toes.

She got in the Relax Sauna. In 12 minutes, she had feeling in her fingers and toes for the first time in two and a half years. And she has used another portable sauna a dozen times— an hour at a time— and never had that feeling in her fingers and toes.

Because see, when you buy a supplement, you look at the dose. You buy a vitamin C, for example— it’s got a hundred milligrams— that’s nice. You find another one that’s got 250, 500, a thousand grams— I mean a thousand milligrams, which is one gram— well, you know, people, when they look at saunas, and they say, “Oh, okay, well this one’s cheaper,” yeah— well, the Relax Sauna is 1,500 watts. Most of them are only a thousand watts.

And there’s a beautiful review on reddit.com. I don’t even know the man— he did this in February of 2017. And he said that he bought an Amazon sauna for 250 bucks, and it only increased core temperature a half a degree. And the— you know— and the heart rate variability that it talked about in Sherry Rogers’ book and in pubmed.com—

Sherry Rogers wrote a book called Detoxify or Die. And in the book, you know, she points at all the research in far infrared ray. She had like dozens of patients who were chemically sensitive and having big problems— environmentally sensitive and having many health problems. And they were basically left for dead by the establishment physicians, you know, that— that in all due diligence, they really tried to help, but they were not able to because they didn’t have the tools.

And Sherry Rogers was something like a functional or integrative medical doctor, and she used far infrared saunas. And boom— she got them all back to being healthy lifestyles. And so there’s a lot of research, stemming back probably from the ’60s and ’70s, from Japan initially, Germany, you know, China, talking about what far infrared can do— between 4 and 14 microns is the main.

So this guy on reddit.com tried to replicate what the research said far infrared saunas will do, and all the heart rate variability tests failed for the cheaper sauna— the $250 sauna. And then the $500 Amazon sauna— they just— and they only increased core temperature a half degree.

So here he is, really believing in far infrared, so he says, “Okay, there’s a couple saunas out there that sell for higher. I’ll buy the Relax Sauna.” It’s 1,500 watts, and that’s a whole lot more than a thousand watts. That was his deciding factor.

He didn’t realize that the big difference between the Relax Sauna is that it’s— the technology— using the semiconductor chip technology you mentioned— that took 10 years for the Relax Sauna to figure out how in the world to do that. That technology creates about 95–98% far infrared ray by filtering out the near and the mid, which do not resonate with the cells in your body.

So the more far you have, the more effective it is.

So, you know, if you— if you use the simple math: the Amazon sauna at a thousand watts— 36% for the generic carbon impregnated filters, you know, just the cloths— and they have corrugated plastic in there and laminated plastic. But the energy emitted by those is only about 360 watts.

And the Relax Sauna is 1,500 watts at 98%, so that’s about 1,400 watts.

The Relax Sauna uses the tent as a mirror. And that’s another secret to why the Relax Sauna doesn’t cost ten, twelve thousand dollars. We use the tent as the mirror.

Because a cat needs to lie in the sun, not in the shade— or not that they need to— they don’t lie in the shade. They lie in the sun, because then they absorb the far infrared light. And it’s a very, very beautiful experience to watch the process. To watch the process.

Well, I’ve talked a bit. I’ll let you say something, and then I’ll continue along my train of thought, because I just talked about the two— you know, there’s much more. There’s much more that makes the Relax Sauna unique.

All saunas are great. You know, if you got an inexpensive Amazon sauna— I used one for a year, I loved it. But there— there was a night and day difference in effectiveness and the efficiency and the quickness when we finally got the Relax Sauna in, a year after I’d been using the other sauna.

I love it. Yeah, thank you for all that. That was all great. I made like ten different points, basically different roads we can go down, but I’ll just make a lot of the points really quickly.

Well, you know, the way— I like what you said about the lymph— go ahead.

Oh no, go ahead.

Oh, the way I work is that, you know, I— I’ve these lingering strands that come to us. I— I just pop onto them. I call that a nudge. And I just say, “Okay.” And then I get off course, and it’s always amazing how we— we always get everything covered by the end of the 60 minutes. We— we come about face. And, you know, sometimes it drives people crazy. “Well, he didn’t finish.” Well, just hang in there, be in the moment. It’ll come. And all your questions will be answered. I— I’ve just observed this. This is how it works through me. And I just love it. I just love the way it works. Because, you know, you get so much, and then you have to take a break.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah. And I like— I’m bored with most interviews. I like doing a different kind of guerrilla interviewing style, and I like to kind of confuse the guest or kind of throw them off, just— you know, kind of go— like they think I’m going this way, and then I just go 90-degree angle and see how they react. That— you usually get better answers, right?

Exactly. Exactly.

But I like what you said about the lymphocytes. I’ve— I used to work three jobs and just work all— teaching and delivery driver, all these things— and just talking nonstop all day. And I think a lot of people are in that boat, where they’re either telemarketing or doing demos at Costco or Whole Foods or whatever, and just using their throat a lot and talking.

And I would get sore throats all the time until I got into sauna therapy. And to me, that’s my number one use of it. If I just have talked too much, it’s just like a— nothing works on my throat like that. And of course, I combine it with different herbal sprays and stuff that I use. But mainly the infrared on regenerating my vocal cords— it’s incredible.

We have a lady in LA who said she— her voice was raspy for years. And after she started using the Relax Sauna— I mean, she had a wooden sauna for five years. And then when she moved, she gave it to her son because she said, “I’m not gonna put this back together again, no way.” And— and so it’s— it’s— what he did is— or what she did is, she bought the Relax Sauna. And when she first saw it at the Conscious Life Expo, she looked at it and said, “No way.” But somehow I convinced her it was— it was different, you know. The Relax Sauna was more effective.

And she— she ended up buying one. And— and she said that her voice returned to normal. And— and she’s been a strong proponent of the Relax Sauna for about ten years now. And— because it is magical. It’s— it’s not a wooden sauna. It’s far more— because the technology— it’s— see, the wood— the wood saunas are great, and I love them, but— but the wood does not generate any— the pretty wood does not generate far-infrared ray.

You look at the technology of the— of the generators of the far-infrared ray. And the way far-infrared ray works— you have to be in front of it. And like a cat lies in the sun, not in the shade. And so people look at the Relax Sauna, and it’s got a fan in there that’s blowing the heat off of the radiators. Just like a computer has a fan. Without a fan, our computers would not work, because the— the semiconductor chips or the computer chips get hot. If they get too hot, the— it’s dangerous. And so it stops.

So we have a fan in there. It has nothing to do with the far-infrared ray except that it keeps the semiconductor chips cool so that they can continue to generate the far-infrared ray energy.

And what the— the uniqueness of the Relax Sauna to any other sauna I’ve seen— and there may be a couple— but we use the tent as a mirror. Because far-infrared light— they don’t teach you this in seventh grade, and I just don’t understand why they don’t teach you— that far-infrared light or far-infrared energy is a light that comes from the sun. And even though it’s invisible, it is still reflected by a mirror. And because it’s a light, it goes 186,000 miles per second— that’s pretty fast.

And even though— and it’s a light, but it’s still— like, x-ray goes through clothes? Well, the Relax Sauna— the far infrared energy— it also goes through clothes. And— and we all know this. We all know this because on a cold day or a hot day, if we’re wearing a sweater and our back is to the sun and we feel all this so-wonderful warmth in our whole body, the deep penetrating warmth— or if we’re lying on the beach, we feel the deep penetrating warmth— we also find— we also feel the hot on our skin. That’s the ultraviolet light. The— the sand gets hot from ultraviolet light.

But how do the turtle eggs hatch? How do the turtle eggs hatch? The far-infrared light goes through the sand and resonates with the water in turtle eggs and activates the embryo to grow into a turtle. Isn’t that amazing?

No one else talks about this. It’s— it’s something I sort of just recognized. But the— the— the sand does not get hot in between those two inches. But the— the water in the turtle egg does pulsate. That gets the turtle egg hot— hot enough where it starts the process of growing into a turtle.

And the same thing with snakes— with snake eggs or any reptile eggs— where the reptiles put this— you know, they got an agreement with the sun. It’s just amazing. They— they put their eggs about an inch and a half, two inches below the surface so that the sun’s energy will reach it, and the predators won’t be able to get it.

That’s incredible.

Hey, have you heard of the book Reverse Aging by Sang Whang, who’s a Japanese fellow? And there— I read it years ago, and there is a whole section on infrared and far infrared. And my favorite part of the book is that he said that sleeping next to a partner— you actually live longer because you’re reflecting each other’s far-infrared waves back and forth. Whereas if you’re just single and sleeping alone, you’re just sending those out, and they’re not being reflected back at you.

I thought— I think the reflective nature of far infrared is pretty fascinating.

Well, I met both he and his wife for two or three years in a row at the Florida chiropractor conferences in the early 2000s, when we first started selling the sauna. And I do have his book, and I had a nice conversation with both of them. And yes, this is very true. And far-infrared energy is— is miraculous because we are all far-infrared light beings.

And soon as we hug someone, we’re generating far-infrared light. And, you know, it’s— it’s probably about ten years ago, twelve years ago, a number of young women in their early 20s would say— they get in the Relax Sauna at the conference— they said, “Oh my gosh, I feel like my grandma’s hugging me.” And— and so I’ve— and then about five, six years later, I started— you know, I— you know, people— they walk by the Relax Sauna. Maybe they already have a wooden sauna. Maybe they know nothing about the healing benefits of saunas and what it can do. And they— and they— they stub their nose.

And so I— the easiest way to get a person in is saying, “It feels like your grandma is hugging you.” And then— then I— then I have to qualify. And, you know, one person said, “Not my grandma.” I said, “Oh, so it feels like your loving grandma is hugging you.” And there’s always exceptions.

Yes, there are always exceptions, you know. And then I also say, “It’s like a cross between being hugged by your loving grandma and basking in divine love.”

And— and that— that’s— that’s a pretty good description. Then I add a couple others. It’s like being in the womb. It’s like being on the beach in Hawaii. Or it’s like being in the presence of a Qigong master.

And Dr.— Dr.— we’ll— yeah, oh sorry, go ahead— Dr. Bill Akpinar wrote a book that I talked about: No Sweat / Know Sweat: A Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Your Health. And in the book he talks— well, not in the book, but he’s the one that talks about the history of sweating and what it can do.

And the— you know— what he— what he said to me is that these other saunas are not going to increase heat shock proteins nearly as much as the Relax Sauna does. And he calls the Relax Sauna a Qigong Sauna because he is a Qigong master. He’s an oriental medical doctor. He’s an acupuncturist. He’s a— he’s a medical doctor in New York City, Long Island. He uses ozone therapy in his practice. And he was voted best cancer doctor in New York City in 2007. So he comes with a litany of titles, or he’s accomplished a lot in his life. And— and he’s— he knows what he’s talking about. And he knows that the Relax Sauna is by far the most innovative far infrared— or infrared— sauna out there.

Because it increases the Chi because of the— the fact that we do 95–98% far infrared energy. And again, you know, it’s like for— for 10 years I’m communicating this to people and— and I don’t get any response. People can’t relate to the fact, “Oh, so it’s 95–98% far infrared energy, and the other sauna is only 36%,” and— and it’s like as if they didn’t even hear me. You know, I’m saying, you’re getting five times more far infrared ray energy.

It’s like the— the 1,000 mil— the 1,000 milligrams of vitamin C is more effective than 100 milligrams. And sometimes 100 milligrams of vitamin C won’t work. It won’t do what you want it to do. But a gram will. And, you know, if you take them every hour, you’re always gonna have vitamin C that’s gonna help for dealing with the flu and stuff like that.

But— but at any rate— it’s the— so what I finally— because that article I talked about— the review of the Relax Sauna on reddit.com— that— that opened up the floodgate. He said the other saunas cannot increase core temperature— only a half a degree. So here’s something that’s measurable.

The Relax Sauna increases core temperature 3.2 degrees in 25 minutes. And Dr. Paul Anderson has a cancer clinic in Washington State, in the Seattle area, and he can increase core temperature 4.2 degrees with his cancer patients when they’re doing IV vitamin C therapy.

And I also met a man at the Paleo Conference in Austin about two years ago, and he came to me a year later and said, “Hey, the Relax Sauna will increase core temperature 3.2 degrees— the same number— all the time.” And the gym saunas— they are not able to do that.

And that’s the key— increasing your core temperature. Hippocrates: “Find me a way to create fever or sweat, and I will cure disease.”

Yeah, that’s— that’s amazing. I can definitely relate because I’ve used tons of the wooden saunas. I used to sneak into gyms— yeah— my friends and use theirs back in the day when I was a degenerate. And it was— definitely took forever for me to heat up.

And then when I bought my own— and specifically I used yours— it’s like within 15 minutes I have a sweat. And I noticed too— and I’ve told people this— and one of my friends, you know, former mentors, colleagues— Robert Casar— has said this…

Oh yeah, he’s like— he’s interesting.

Yeah, that the pores— if you haven’t sweat in, like, years— like a lot of Americans or people just that have an indoor existence— if you haven’t sweat and the pores are just locked shut— this has been my experience, you know, because it was just a philosophy he shared. And I’m like, “Well, let’s see if this is true.” And to me it was true.

Like if I don’t use the sauna for months— like three, four, five months— and then I go in, it takes so long to start sweating. But if I do it consistently, like once or twice a week, like consistently, then I’ll sweat faster.

And so I think that’s like a question a lot of people probably ask you too. It’s like, “Why aren’t I sweating?” But if they haven’t sweat in like years, right, it’s just their pores are so clamped shut, and they have to like train their body to sweat again, right?

Well, Dr. Roger Billica— he used to be the Director of Medical Operations for NASA for ten years. And he has a clinic in Fort Collins, Colorado, called Tri-Life Clinic. And he says that when he uses— when his patients are using the Relax Sauna— finally, after two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, or whenever, you know— those who are really ill— once they start sweating, there’s a remarkable change in their— in their healing journey. They start healing much, much more quickly.

And so, you know, what’s interesting is that— this— my ex-wife would be putting people in the Relax Sauna all the time. And— and she never was— she never found someone she couldn’t make sweat. She was a midwife for sweating.

And one lady had— it took 51 minutes to get her to sweat. And as soon as she started sweating, you had three doctors at a medical conference with their credit cards ready to buy one.

You know, but usually— like, I was at a dentist show, a biological dentist show, and one lady had not sweated in 10 years. And the other lady had not sweated in 20 years. And within 15, 20, 22 minutes, they were all— both— sweating.

And so it’s— it’s a release. It’s like the inability of men to cry. You know, once— once you’re able to cry, you’re able to release. And once you can release— you know, I like to say the water’s got to get out, so you might as well laugh instead of cry.

And being in the sauna is like, you know, laughing. Because you— you— you know, one of the— one of the— the— the side effects of the Relax Sauna is— is joy. It’s joy. And the other one is euphoria. The other benefit side effect, you know. These are some things, you know, that it just happens. You just feel joyful. You feel mentally alert. Spiritually tuned in. There’s a little extra pep in your step. You— you just feel alive, aware.

And this— this is why Dr. Bill Akpinar, you know, author of the book No Sweat / Know Sweat— why he says this is the Qigong Sauna. Because the Qi in your— in your body is starting to be activated. And the other saunas don’t have enough oomph. They don’t have enough far infrared ray energy to do it. They’re great. They have a lot of benefits.

I would never say not to do another sauna. I would never, ever say that another sauna is dangerous. You know, because of the EMF— you know, Dr. Robert O. Young, who’s quite famous for his book The pH Miracle, says he’s never found a sauna where the EMF would— would interfere with the effectiveness of the far infrared ray.

And the Relax Sauna, having ten times more far infrared energy than the— than any other, you know, portable sauna, and at least four or five times more far infrared ray— people don’t realize that there’s research in Japan that says that far infrared antidotes the negative effects of EMF.

And when we talk about EMF— household appliances can’t hold a candle to the danger of a cell phone or Wi-Fi, let alone 5G.

I know there’s a— there’s a man— he’s a scientist— he’s out of Pennsylvania. He bought a Relax Sauna from us about 12, 14 years ago. He says it’s as good as new. It’s one of the videos on testimonial— if you go to Relax Saunas testimonials EMF— he’s one of the ones who talks about it. But he says the energy from the Relax Sauna energy— in terms of EMF— it— it’s— a cell phone is a hundred times more dangerous.

So— so I asked Dr. Klinghardt— you’re familiar with him— and— and his— his partner got a Relax Sauna from us at the Autism Conference. We let her take it up to the hotel room, and she— in one session, her elbow pain that she had for a year was gone— and hasn’t come back.

So they— they bought a sauna from us in May. And then when— when— when Dr. Klinghardt was a guest speaker at a conference in Chicago

Two months later, the Psychotronics Conference— they bought another sauna because they have a location in London and a location in Seattle. And so, you know, she just totally, totally loves the sauna and says Dr. K has also used it.

So I asked Dr. Klinghardt— that’s Dietrich— when people, they carry a cell phone and they ask about the EMF in the Relax Sauna, and he said, “Yeah, I know, like— you know, it’s like— you know, like my blender, my juicer has ten times more EMF. And when I juice, I juice for 20 minutes, and I’m like, you know, my chest is right in front of it. And it’s— it’s okay. I never feel any— any repercussions from it.”

But— but the beauty in the Relax Sauna is the only EMF is by the feet. There is absolutely hardly any EMF because there’s no electricity above your knees.

But because, you know, a lot of times people— you know, it’s like they have a measuring device, okay, and the measuring device says there’s EMF. Well, that’s nice. Do you believe in your device, or do you believe in your body’s ability and your attunement with your inner connection to realize that the far infrared ray is not allowing the EMF to damage you, because it’s— it’s an antidote for EMF?

I know there’s a musician in Philadelphia. He got in the sauna and he says, “I’m really, really sensitive to EMF,” but he— his friend said, “Hey, this is great,” and he got in and said, “I can feel— I can sense— not feel, I can sense the EMF there by the radiators, but it can’t— it’s not getting in, because the far infrared ray from the Relax Sauna radiators is preventing it.”

And so, you know, I would say that the Relax Sauna generators act as an EMF protector. And— and there’s— there are four people who specialize in— in Arizona and in LA— who specialize in helping you have a home that is free of EMF, and they all have Relax Saunas in their home. And they all love it.

One lady, after she— she tested four people’s homes for EMF, and she— she sells a little device— she just clips on— says, “Well, just for extra protection, just get one of these.” But she saw that four of her clients all had Relax Saunas. And then she met us at a show, and then she ended up buying one herself. And— and she gave us a testimony.

So it just— it confounds me, the— the marketing ploys of other companies. And— and they mean well, but they don’t know what they’re talking about. They really— it’s just— you know, yeah. You can probably elaborate on that. You’ve been in the Relax Sauna for a number of years, and— and have you ever experienced any EMF damage?

No, not at all. I’m really glad you addressed the EMF, because I think that’s the number one concern when they see your sauna. And then the giant wooden ones— especially that are selling for four grand, five— I’ve even seen $6,000 wooden saunas. And, you know, there’s like two big names that people in the biohacking space sell. And I think, you know, they market with, like, you know, “No off-gassing, no EMFs.”

But it’s really— you’re just trying to sweat and get the job done. And why would you spend an extra three, four grand? Like for years I would just throw a Sagano— or there’s different companies making these activated charcoal packs— you can get on Amazon— eight dollars, right? Throw those in the sauna. It just absorbs all the VOCs.

It’s like all this psychodrama. And people just— so— you know, because there’s all this fear about EMFs and, like, just hysteria. And I really like that you brought up that light’s the antidote, because I think it’s not only far infrared light, but just light in general.

Like, for me, it’s visible red, invisible red, UV light, and good water. If you have good drinking water, you have magnesium in your red blood cell, you’re getting sufficient light hitting your— hitting your tissues and your blood, then— like you said— you’re resistant to EMF.

So I think people just have the wrong philosophy of the EMFs. Like, they’re gonna, like, block everything and, like, live in, like, a Faraday cage. But that’s not a way to live. You just want to get so strong that you could— you could resist these fields.

And, you know, there’s exceptions. Like, if you’re in a big city like LA or San Diego or Austin or a big— you know, New York— then you have to take extra measures. But, you know— yeah, I’m glad you brought that up.

But I want to make this point real quick. Have you seen those liposomal products, like the detox kits? I actually pulled one up— I won’t name the company, but most people know which one I’m talking about— yeah, it’s like a cube detox kit for $1,700. And it’s liposomal glutathione and vitamin C.

I just roll my eyes at this kind of stuff, because you could spend, you know, just a grand on your sauna and drink good clean water and get a very similar effect, instead of having to buy their $1,700 detox liposomal kit every month or two months or three months, whatever it is.

I just— I prefer protocols that you— it’s a one-time purchase and then you can just use it forever, you know? And that’s kind of what the sauna is to me. It’s like a— you do the protocol as much as you want after you invest.

What people like about the Relax Sauna is the longevity. There are many people— there are probably a dozen interviews I’ve done with people who’ve had their saunas 10, 12, 14, even 16 years— and say it works great. It works just like new.

Sometimes the tents do wear out if you don’t treat them well after four, five, six years— like reupholstering furniture— but the radiators will last a long time. We say that they last five to seven years in a clinical setting. But, you know, I don’t— you know— and they had one set of Relax Sauna generators— it’s a double generator— in Taiwan for nine years going 24/7. And then there was a power failure, so they— they quit their experiment. But it does go a long time. They work well.

And I mean, the— the generators— they themselves cost $1,000 for just the two generators. And then the tent and the chair and everything— you know, right now in 2020 they sell for $1,300 online. But the Relax Sauna is not a $1,300 sauna. It’s a $2,000 sauna. It sells in Taiwan for $2,000.

So the Relax Sauna is more comparable to the— the $4,000, $5,000 wooden saunas that are made— you know, well, in America— or not in America necessarily, but— but are made with, you know, real wood and all that junk.

And the— the portable saunas— the $850 saunas— they’re the same technology as the $250, $300, $400 saunas. They have carbon panels, which are very primitive and only generate about 35%, 36% far infrared ray.

Some of the other saunas have, you know, whatever they have— they— they’re putting in near infrared light bulbs, they’re putting in stones, they’re putting in other stuff. But, you know, it’s bells and whistles. Just the far infrared ray energy— the pure— we’ve had this sauna with no changes for 20 years in the technology.

Because once we discovered it, we discovered it. And— and we’ve had some cosmetic changes, but not in the radiator. The radiator’s the same semiconductors we’ve been using for over 20 years. And the company is 40 years old.

And oh— also the point you brought out about the— about the tent— there’s a guy who’s got a Facebook page who— who doesn’t understand lab reports, and he is bad-mouthing the Relax Sauna tent saying it’s full of toxins, it’s full of stuff. I said, “Oh my gosh.” He just— he just says, “You don’t want one of these,” which is basically a form of slander and libel.

But, you know, hey— to each their own. I— I believe that fake news, real news— it’s all the same. You have to decide what to believe and not to believe. And— and I don’t believe in belief.

Yeah, that was actually one of our Q&A questions— like, “Is there off-gassing of chemicals? What is the material made of that we— like— that we had it tested?”

We tested the sauna tent. Now here’s— here’s the way it works. You test the laboratory for parts per billion of these volatile gases. And— and 15 gases measured, okay? In it, okay?

Then they brought the Relax Sauna in. They took the Relax Sauna. They stuck it on for 30 minutes. And as soon as the 30 minutes was over, they measured the volatile gases in the laboratory, okay? Of 15, eight went up and seven actually went down. And the difference was negligible. And all 15 parts.

So what this guy on Facebook was saying— and he had a YouTube video before, I think they took it down because it was sort of like libel or slander— he said, “The Relax Sauna is dangerous. Look at all these volatile chemicals.” Well, the volatile chemicals were in the laboratory before, and there was no negative— negligible difference.

But this is how people can interpret things. And frankly, I think a carpet or the paint has more, you know, than the Relax Sauna.

Now, you know, we used to— for the first four, five, six years, we used to get the Relax Saunas in and no one ever, ever complained about any off— any kind of smell. But now that we— we’re making— we’re selling so many Relax Saunas, we’re getting them in, like, shortly after they’ve been made. And it’s like a new car smell.

It is made with nylon. And it is nylon. And it’s coated with a coating that has real silver in it. And I think they’re made by a company in Taiwan that makes spacesuits for NASA or something like that. So it’s a very reputable company that makes the tents. And all it is is nylon. Nylon and— and that silver coating.

And it’s— anyone who has— like, I— I happen to like cotton and natural fibers, and so I use cotton sweats. I use— you know— but some people have nylon sweats. A lot of athletes have nylon. And so the danger of their clothes is probably more, you know, as dangerous as the Relax Sauna tent, which is nil. It’s not at all.

And like what you said, you can just get those— those carbon packs and stick them in.

That’s what I like to do, just in case. I mean, I even do that in the wooden saunas I’ve used. Because there’s still plastic— speaker thing— and it’s like, with EMFs, I think that people that get on you about the EMFs— I would bet— I would bet like $1,000 that they don’t put their phone in airplane mode when it’s in their pocket. That they have it on their lap when they’re driving.

I see this with health nuts all the time. It drives me nuts. Right on the genitals, they rest the phone.

Yes! Metal box.

Right? Or— or right to their head, right? They’re not always using speaker and never— like never, ever putting it to their head. So I think, yeah, it’s just— people get kind of neurotic about different things in health.

And that’s why I post pictures of me eating a burger here and there.

Yes! Burger.

And different things. Just to let people know, like, health is not just about, you know, being on everything. Like, you have to let go. You have to go out with your friends and family. Have fun, right? That’s what health is. It’s not being neurotic about EMFs and, you know, 5G and off-gassing.

And it’s— you— you’ll go crazy. But I mean, we have solutions, so do your best. But try not to micromanage your life, because I think that’s not healthy.

Right.

It’s like, you can be unhealthy trying to be healthy, you know.

I— I have— I have no rules. I don’t believe in rules. Rules are temporary to get you to see.

I had a dream, and I was told not to eat potatoes, tomatoes, and mushrooms. This is in the early ’70s. I wasn’t eating them anyway. And then a couple months later I went to dinner with my mom and my aunt, and two of them were in— in the salad. And I just listened, and I got the go-ahead— eat them.

So, you know, I ate them. And then I realized that was the— the— the consummation of the fact that my discipline was over. In other words, the fact that the discipline was over, I had to break the rules to be free of a rule controlling me. Because I don’t want to be controlled by anything but living in the moment and letting the direct connection with That Which Is guide my actions and attitudes and behavior.

And it’s just totally listening. Absolute reliance on that inner— that inner guidance is what it’s all about.

And this thing about fear— you know, people would say, “You know what’s ten times worse than EMF? Ten times worse? A hundred times worse?” The fear of EMF.

Fully agree. Fully agree. And I see— I think people are getting sick with this virus just from being in fear.

Right. Because fear lowers the immune system.

You got it. And it’s— and again, it’s like— I mean, I— I am, like, aghast, okay, at the behavior of people. I mean, you know, I don’t want to go into that right now. I don’t want to get myself in any kind of trouble. But— but— but the fear is like— I even— I put it— there’s— from The King and I, you know, “When I’m afraid, whistle a happy tune.” I post that on my Facebook page. “You guys gotta start whistling! This is crazy!” You know, I— you know, I don’t even— you know—

But— but there is— there’s something called MedCram. MedCram 46, MedCram 47, and MedCram 55— where they all talk about the benefits of sauna in the first two, three days of being sick with the flu or a virus. That’s the time when saunas can be extremely helpful.

And so, you know, we are getting phone calls left and right, because even Dr. Akpanour— who says— who uses IV therapy, ozone, and ultraviolet light— he says light and ozone and heat from far infrared— those are three secret ingredients that will perform miracles.

Dr. Robert O. Young— I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him— he wrote The pH Miracle, and he’s for alkalizing the body. And again, I’ve— I think he’s got incredible wisdom. And he has been using wooden saunas and recommending wooden saunas probably for 20, 30, 40 years— you know, for all I know.

And he got a Relax Sauna at the Cancer Conference from us five years ago and gave me a two-minute interview on the spot. And at the Cancer Conference in September, he gave me a 17-minute interview. And he can explain why and how a Relax Sauna works so well. I mean, they— they really get the job done. They do.

And of the saunas that he uses— he’s got, you know, 10,000–20,000 wooden saunas— and he uses the Relax Sauna because it works quick. It does the job. It gets the job done. 30 seconds, I’m sweating.

I’ve been doing the Relax Sauna for 18 years now, almost every morning. And so, I’ve been in the Relax Sauna at least 6,000 times. And I do it for 20 minutes and have an incredible sweat.

It takes me 30 seconds to feel warm and toasty. 8 minutes to start sweating. 15 minutes, I’m dripping. And 20 minutes, I’m drenched. And— and that’s the average. You know, some days it’s quicker, some days—

And then what I’ll do is I’ll get out and drink some water, and then I’ll come back and do another 20-minute sweat. And those two towels on my sauna— they’re wet. I put a folded towel on the chair. I drape another towel over the chair. And they’re— they’re both soaked after a 20-minute— especially after two 20-minute sweats.

And on Spa Day for Phil, that’s the magic— I do it three times. Always doing water in between. And yeah, it’s— it’s magical. And you feel like you’ve been at the spa for nine hours in one hour.

I definitely feel that. I was gonna ask you too about the towels because that’s something I was trying to figure out. So you put a folded one on the— under your butt that you’re sitting on, right?

One over the chair. Yeah.

You can even put, like, hand towels on the foot things, right? Because I noticed those can get hot.

Exactly. Exactly. And you can put them on the floor of the tent.

If I don’t sweat— I sit in half-lotus position 80% of the time in the sauna.

Oh, and I duck my head a lot too. I duck my head a lot. Sometimes I like to—

See, we’re the pro-choice sauna. We give you the choice to put your head in or out.

Yeah, I used to, like, sit completely in those and then— right— shut— you know, put something over the top. You don’t even need to put anything over the top because it’s not the heat. It’s not the heat— it’s the light.

After 10 years of using the sauna— you know, I— I would get too hot, like we talked about. And I’d have to do all this exercise and move my chest and move my head to be able to handle it. And finally, after 10 years, I realized all I had to do is unzip the zipper. As I call it, “sophisticated temperature control.”

So do you want to do a quick rapid-fire Q&A? We have like 15 questions, and a lot of them are pretty— pretty simple. But let me— let me quickly finish the third and fourth things that the Relax Sauna does— or the far infrared does.

Oh yeah, okay.

It— it— besides increasing microcirculation, which helps for neuropathy, for arthritis pain, for getting rid of inflammation, for getting rid of scar tissue, for helping with Raynaud’s Syndrome. And the microcirculation helps for the heart.

The Mayo Clinic says all their heart patients should never use regular saunas, because the heart has to race to find an equilibrium. But far infrared saunas is actually, you know, great and very healthy for them.

The third thing that the Relax Sauna does— and I had a lady who has a $5,000 wooden sauna use the Relax Sauna for a half an hour and come back to me and say, “After eight minutes— eight to ten minutes— I experienced the deepest, most profound relaxation I have ever had in my life.”

And so what the Relax Sauna does— and I’ve noticed this from word— from day one— it— it activates the parasympathetic nervous system. And so it balances the feeling and thinking qualities within you. It gets you tuned in and gets the flight-or-fight motion out of you. And that’s why people say, “I sleep better. I don’t have any anxiety. I feel tuned in.”

And then the fourth thing it does— it activates the mitochondria to create ATP and nitric oxide. So you feel energized, but it’s true energy.

Like, I used to do caffeine and coffee for ten years. And I— I quit when I was 22. I did it from age 12 to 22, and that was over 50 years ago. And so that— that’s like a nervous energy.

But in the Relax Sauna, you get down to the grounded point where you feel connected. And as soon as you feel connected, all of a sudden, you start getting energized by a real energy. And that’s the fourth thing that it does.

So let’s answer your questions now. I’m ready.

I appreciate that. Yeah, I made a little— little list of those. That’s super cool.

And actually, one more question before we start. I noticed you have a black model that’s a little more expensive. Like, two different versions, right? Is the materials the only difference? Is that the difference?

The radiator is exactly the same. The chair is exactly the same. The poles are exactly the same. It’s— the tent is made out of a more reflective material. And— and we do get better results with the black sauna, and it does work— it’s a thicker— it’s embroidered. It looks beautiful. It’s got an embroidered emblem on it.

And so if you— if you are willing to pay $5,000 for a piece of art— and— and, you know, two feet by three feet— and that one for $200 just doesn’t turn you on, then— then this is for— this is the prestige sauna.

But in terms of the— the $1,300 sauna— works ten times— four to ten times more effective than any other sauna. So if the Relax black sauna works 5% more effectively, it’s negligible compared to the other saunas.

But if you have money and you want the best, it’s worth the difference. If you don’t have a whole lot of money, it is not worth the difference. $2,000 to $1,300— maybe if it sold for $1,500 or $1,600 it might be worth it— but— but not at $2,000.

Okay, awesome. Thanks for that. Yeah, I was wondering.

And then you also have a lie-down one and then some lamps. That’s— that’s kind of cool. Because I always like— like, I have red light shining on me during all the interviews. And yeah, that’s something you just put in your workplace, right? The little table lamp?

The table lamp is incredible. I mean, you know, I used to sell the Hitachi twin-head electric massager at conferences before we discovered the Relax Sauna. And I’d sell 40 in a weekend.

The— the— the Relax Sauna far infrared table lamp can do wonders. It can do wonders. It can return eyesight. It— I mean it did— it returned hearing. It got rid of tooth pain. It got rid of infections. Miracle.

One lady put the— the Relax Sauna table lamp on— she would inject B12 shots into her thigh— and she put the Relax Sauna lamp, and in real time, all the blue marks— all the purple marks— disappeared. And— and she was totally blown away.

And the lie-down— yeah, the lie-down sauna.

Some people love to lie down. It works just as well. It’s a thousand watts instead of 1,500 watts, but it works just as effectively. And it’s a great— and it puts any other lie-down sauna to shame.

We had one lady— she had a $2,300 lie-down sauna she’d bought from another company. She sold it to me for a $200 rebate on the Relax Sauna lie-down sauna. She said there’s a night and day difference.

Wow, super cool. I love it. Well, let’s see— our first question here: What are the benefits of a far infrared sauna over a steam sauna?

The far infrared energy is energy medicine. The— the energy pulsates with your water molecules. It increases your core temperature. Steam saunas only get you hot on the outside. They don’t have that energetic effect. And you’ll never— you know, or it’ll be very, very difficult to— to feel the Chi within your body moving with a steam sauna or with any— you know, a Finnish sauna as well.

Awesome. Yeah, I definitely agree. Do you suggest using binders after the sauna, like activated charcoal, chlorella, clay?

Those are, you know— many, many options. Many naturopathic doctors, many functional medicine doctors, you know, or nutritional consultants will recommend those things. And each will have a different protocol. And they’re all good. They’re all good.

I’ve— you know, I’ve had my health food store now since 1980. And I’ve been into fasting, intermittent fasting. I didn’t even know that’s what it was called. And I just started doing it naturally. And there are many things you can do. There’s— there’s bentonite clay, there— there are all these things that you can do. And I recommend them all.

Awesome. I used to make a drink— my favorite sauna drink was lemon and— basically lemon and ginger. Like, sometimes I’d put cayenne pepper in there. But just lemon and ginger drink is super refreshing in the sauna.

My favorite—

Segue, right? Oh, sorry, go ahead.

My favorite drink is the Master Cleanse. I got lemon juice— the lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne—

Oh yeah.

I’ve done 10-day, 13-day fasts on that, 3-day fast, 7-day fast. I love that. I love that drink. And I do love a lot of maple syrup. Maybe, like—

Yeah, yeah. I do a lot of ginger too. I love ginger and turmeric.

That’s awesome. Yeah. All great stuff. What about electrolytes and minerals? That— a couple questions on that of— should you be concerned about sweating out your minerals? Or you can put just some salt in your water, right?

Good, clean— yeah, Celtic sea salt, Himalayan salt, Real Salt, or— you know, the— the trace mineral formula by Trace Mineral Company or— or any other, you know, or any good mineral supplement, you know, are all recommended. And again, you know, I give people the choice.

It’s— it’s probably a good idea. My ex-wife used to get on my case to always— I didn’t do it very much because I eat pretty healthy. And every so often, I would get a leg cramp. I’d say, “Okay, it’s time for me to start doing the minerals.”

It’s amazing how much they run the body. I’ve been studying just magnesium for years and taking mega, mega doses of magnesium and getting amazing results. So magnesium— what are your thoughts on number 12, by the way?

And 12 is a special number. Yeah, magnesium is— it’s good. It’s— the periodic table number is 12, so it’s very special because of that.

That’s super cool. Heavy metals— I had three questions with heavy metals. How to get rid of heavy metals from vaccines that are sitting in the brain, stuck in the body? Does sweating help remove any of them from the brain, or do you need binders? And then— do 5G towers interact with heavy metals?

Well, I’ve heard that— that aluminum in the body from the chemtrails and from the deodorants and all the— the aluminum act as an antenna to make the— that the— the Wi-Fi from the cell phones from— or the Wi-Fi or even the 5G— to activate it more, to make it more stronger in— in being a poison to the body.

And as a poison, we— we— we detoxify the— you know, we had a— Karen Russell, back in 2007, November, bought a Relax Sauna from us at a— one of the medical conferences. And within two months— within one month— all her heavy metals were back to normal.

Now, I think it’s because she had tried all these other things, but they were dormant in her and couldn’t finish the job. And so, within a month, her mercury and lead levels were normal for the first time in two and a half years on her monthly tests.

And so, you know— and— and we did test someone after— you know, the— the people in Taiwan who make the Relax Saunas said, “Oh, really? It gets rid of heavy metals? We didn’t know that.” And so they— they, you know, they did a little test of their own. It’s not really a scientific thing.

But a man, you know, urinated before— you know, he got in the sauna, and then he went in the sauna for 15 minutes. And then next time he gave urine, there was way, way, way more heavy metals in the urine than there was before.

So it’s going to get the heavy metals to go out— to the— to the urine, and the sweat, and— and the— and the colon.

And so I don’t have any proof of this. It’s very, very hard to do proofs. But we have many, many doctors— and they’re all— the sauna companies, they all, you know, report that they’ve had many, many anecdotal instances where people don’t have heavy metals nearly as much as they did.

So I think it’s a good— good— it’s not going to hurt. It’s not going to increase heavy metals. And I’d say 90% more— it’s going to reduce them.

I love it. And it’s my understanding like phthalates and even radioactive particles can leave through the sweat?

Yes. There’s some research on that— because dioxins— dioxins and plastics. And Dr. Sherry Rogers in her book Detoxify or Die said that the— the— the only way she knows to get plastics out of the body— or phthalates— is through saunas. Through far infrared saunas. It’s the only way she knows— in 2001.

So, oh my gosh, the far infrared saunas can do wonders. Because again, it increases your core body temperature. Finnish saunas are great. They have a lot of benefit. You know, I have nothing wrong with them. I highly recommend them.

Dr. Sherry Rogers called the superior sauna— then you want the far infrared sauna because they can do so much more than the regular saunas can. And a lot of people who are touting the Finnish saunas, they don’t quite realize that, but that’s okay. Finnish saunas are great, and they’ve proven in a 20-year study that those Finns who do sweating— I mean, the difference is— it’s phenomenal between those who do it four to seven times a week compared to those that only do it one time.

I’ve seen that research, yes.

Yeah, real. And I think I’ve said this story before on my podcast, but years ago I was volunteering at a Run for the Cure, like a cancer fundraiser, and it was just such like an LSD moment to look at the table— the picnic table— and they had plastic, you know, filtered, probably tap water, tap water in plastic bottles with UV light, sunlight, not covered. Just these plastic bottles that people were walking up and just, “Here, free water guys, free.” Free cancer. Just plastic. It’s like people don’t make the connection in the conventional world that plastic causes— I mean, it’s a primary cause of cancer.

Right, yeah. I think that could be the cause of a lot of underlying issues in people, right? Hormonal— especially with this.

There’s one man, he had a Relax Sauna, and then he got into a swimming pool and he got the chlorine— which is another name for dioxins— in his body. And he was nauseous. And 10, 15, 20 minutes in the Relax Sauna, all the nauseousness was gone.

Yeah, the dioxins and the phthalates— or the— or the— that most people aren’t totally aware that those are plastics and chlorine and fluorine that are in the body that need to get out. And the far infrared saunas, through increasing the core temperature, are one of the best ways to get them out. And the Relax Sauna, of course, works so much more effectively.

And again, this seems like hearsay when I say that, especially when you own a $5,000 wooden sauna. But the doctor— not a doctor— but she owns a clinic in colon hydrotherapy and hyperbaric oxygen. Her name is Rebecca Harder, and she wrote this book called Gastro Girl. And in the book, she’s got eight pages on the Relax Sauna. And she relates her story:

“I’ve been selling wooden saunas for 10 years in my clinic.” You know, and she’s got the beautiful pristine clinic made out of wood and everything. And she says, “And I turned my nose up at the Relax Sauna every year I saw them at the conferences.” And then she got in the Relax Sauna, and in three minutes she was sold— because she could feel the difference. She could feel the difference. Instant relaxation.

And this is what people— and Dr. Young, you know— again, Dr. Robert O. Young, for 20 years, he’d been promoting wooden saunas, wooden far infrared saunas. And he gets in the Relax Sauna— boom, sold. And he and his partner have been very, very strong in promoting the Relax Sauna for many years, and they love it.

That’s awesome. Let’s see— suggested frequency and duration of use, or how many sessions per week is best?

Well, I think, you know, two or three times a week is— is minimal. You know, I use it almost every day. I use— I, you know, like I— I skip a morning or two every month. Like two days ago, I didn’t use it. I didn’t feel like using it. I didn’t want to use it. I didn’t use it.

But I usually use it every morning. First thing I get up, I drink about 12 ounces of water. I get in the sauna. At 8 minutes, I’m— I’m sweating. In 15 minutes, I’m dripping. 20 minutes, I’m drenched. I get out, I drink some water, maybe take a shower, then go back and do the same thing all over again— or maybe not take a shower and go in after I’ve been out for two or three minutes.

A friend of mine— she’ll— she’ll drink water constantly while she’s in the sauna and do it for 30–40 minutes. Most people, 15–20 minutes will give you a great sweat. But what’s really exciting about the Relax Sauna— we go to a lot of autism conferences also— kids get in, and in 5 to 7 minutes all the anxiety is gone.

And— and so you can use the Relax Sauna with your clothes on. And we have put— I have put over 125,000 people in the Relax Sauna over the last 18 years. And people with arthritis pain of 12, any other kind of pain of 8, 9, 10, 12, 6, 4, 3— it goes down. And sometimes we get a 12 to go down to a 0 in their clothes, because far infrared goes through the clothes.

I had a man in Austin, Texas. He had a motorcycle accident four years ago. He’s been in constant pain of six, six and a half for four years. He got in the sauna, and it got reduced to three in ten minutes. He bought one, you know. And then he— then he texted me and said, “It does work. It works.”

That’s really cool. This is actually a good question that you made me think of. Someone asked— if you don’t shower immediately, does the existing sweat soak back into the skin?

And I’ve thought about that over the years. And I think like Wendy Myers and some other people in the health space— besides, like, they run to the shower after— but it doesn’t really make sense, right, that they would absorb again.

That— that— that— that ugly, ugly fear monger raises its ugly head and makes you afraid you’re gonna absorb the toxins.

I took rebounding training back with Al Carter. And in the— the lymphatic system is a one-way valve. When you’re— when you’re— when you’re excreting sweat— when you’re— when you’re outflowing, getting rid of sweat— you’re not going to absorb the toxins back into the body.

You know, I mean, you know, I don’t— I don’t, you know— it just makes no sense in the world. You know, as a matter of fact, one colon hydrotherapist said, “Phil, it’s best to wait 20 minutes before you take a shower because your body’s going to continue to detoxify for another 20 minutes.”

Now, you can towel dry, you know. And I— and people who don’t have showers at their offices, I say no— the best, the ideal situation is to wait 20 minutes. You know, especially if you only do it two or three times a week.

Sometimes I shower right after, sometimes I don’t. But no fear. Oh absolutely— get rid of that monster, throw it out the window. You know, you’re not going to absorb toxins. And if you are in the slight bit, you’re not going to absorb more than 5 or 2 percent, you know. And it’s okay. You know, fear is crazy.

You know, you know— my belief is that you’re not going to absorb toxins because your lymphatic system is in outflow mode.

Now, you know, I know that if you— if you put aloe vera on your body or any kind of cream and you warm your body up— like if you want to absorb ozone, you get in the sauna. And a lot of people do ozone saunas. They use the Relax Sauna. And they use either a professional model with the oxygen tank, or they use just a little cheaper sauna that takes it from the air.

And— and we sell ozone saunas for people who want them. You know, we can sell them. And there’s a couple ozone companies that sell the Relax Sauna as well because the— the heat will increase the absorption of the ozone. You open up the pores.

And there’s a guy who does some kind of bicycle and then uses the Relax Sauna afterwards. I mean, the Relax Sauna is used during IV therapy by Dr. Anderson in his cancer clinic in Washington State.

And a lot of people who do IV therapy, they can’t get the— the end of the needle into the vein. And they put people in for five to seven minutes in the Relax Sauna, and then they can do it.

And— and the beauty of the Relax Sauna is that you use it with your clothes on for five to seven minutes to get rid of pain and inflammation. And it’s instant.

I once had really bad chills. I got in, and boom— the chills were gone in two minutes.

Another time, once in the last 18 years, I was having an asthma attack. I got in— within three, four minutes— totally gone.

One of the best things in the world for the lung— one of the best things in the world for the lungs— is a far infrared sauna. It helps oxygenate. And that’s the key with all this coronavirus.

This one guy— this one doctor— says, you know, in the emergency room, he says, “I’ve never seen anything so close to— it’s altitude sickness,” he says. “And what they need is— they need oxygen. They need to be oxygenated.”

And so we’ve been selling oxygen products. I mean, Ed McCabe wrote a book called Oxygen Therapies and Flood Your Body with Oxygen. And chlorine dioxide— the MMS by Jim Humble— is one example of a very, very concentrated something that I don’t do unless I’m very, very, you know, conscious of.

But the oxygen products— the OxyCleanse, the— the OxyLift, the OxyCaps, the— the Super Oxy— you know, the magnesium peroxide and the chlorine dioxide— will oxygenate your cells, and that’s very, very important.

And the Relax Sauna will augment these things. And the Relax Sauna, you know, will create nitric oxide in the body and ATP. And the nitric oxide, just by the name “oxide,” I think that oxygenates the— the cells, and that creates loads of oxygen.

And the— and the— the healthy bacteria will thrive and the anaerobic bacteria will die in the presence of oxygen.

So, you know, in the first two, three days of a flu, using the Relax Sauna is highly recommended— not the Relax Sauna, but using a sauna is highly recommended. Highly recommended by MedCram— I’d say 46, 47, and— and I think 55. They— they— they all recommend saunas.

I mean, all those— those, you know— and this is a medical group explaining what the coronavirus does. And I’m sitting here saying, there, you know, I’ve been into holistic health since 1971, when I got into fasting after I had a kundalini experience— after I had an out-of-body experience the two years before. And so, you know, I was really sensitive back then. And it’s like— it’s— it’s— you know, there are so many—

Dr. Brownstein, Dr. Rowan, they say, “Hey.” Dr. Akpinar— they all have solutions that they’re healing. 99%, 100% of the people coming to them are not— are not dying, and they’re recovering. And— and oh my gosh, the establishment drives me crazy, and they’ve been doing that for 50 years.

Yeah, that was all great stuff. And you made me think of a study. I did a solo show just with me talking all about the coronavirus and my thoughts on it, and there is a study I found called “Coronavirus Disease 2019” on Science Direct.

Yeah? Uh-huh.

And one of the meth— one of the methods— you might have seen this— they used to inactivate the coronavirus in the blood was with heat. It’s just heat. And you can mix that with methylene blue and UV light, which I recommend, and visible light, you know, which is a photosensitizer— that methylene blue stuff.

But like, just light therapy alone— like, that’s my top antiviral. Like, I’ll use oregano oil and different things, but even if this thing is like a real threat, which I don’t think it is— oregano oil, heat, light— they’re good. I mean, to me, it’s— yeah, I’m good at least.

Yeah. Dr. Akpinar recommends ozone infused with ultraviolet light, and then that, you know, intravenously. And then the Relax Sauna— you know, the— the— the light, the— the heat, the far infrared heat, and the— and the ozone, the oxygen— and those are, hey, you know, even people are having a lot of success with vitamin C doses every hour, vitamin A, vitamin D.

I mean, it’s like— I— I mean, I’ve driven myself crazy for the last week instead of doing work and writing and working on my book. I’m— I’m listening to every single video I can on the coronavirus. I mean, I’m, you know, almost beside myself in— in— in— because the— the whole thing is— is— is like worse than a— than a horror fiction, science horror fiction film.

I mean, people are running around with their— they’re like— they’re— they’re chickens with their heads chopped off. They’re— they’re crying “Chicken Little! The sky is falling!” And hey, everything’s fine, you know. It’s like the flu. It’s like the flu. Maybe it’s worse, maybe it’s not.

Good alternative health— they can help you. People won’t die. People die of the flu every year. It’s the same amount as last year as this year— maybe a little bit more, maybe a little bit less, you know. Okay, how many deaths are caused by sickness? I don’t think that’s changed, you know.

Right. It seems like they’re— they’re trying to call everything, you know. And then the— the— the— the data is being manipulated because, you know, politicians who’ve decided to do shutdowns, you know— if it’s turned out that they’re— that this was all, you know, based on false science or inaccurate data, they’re going to look bad. So they’re trying to— to protect themselves, and it’s getting worse.

You know, when— when all else fails, tell the truth.

Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been kind of— Alex Jones is just a funny— he’s a comedian, if anything. He’s probably, you know— you have to be agent. But yeah, because you’re gonna— you don’t cry, you’re gonna laugh. You know, I mean, if you don’t laugh, you have to cry.

He’s had some great shows recently talking about Fauci and how he was kind of the cause of all this and, you know, NIH and just the whole— how everyone’s all—

Yeah, I heard that myself. It’s just a big show.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, like— like with Foster Gamble said in his— his movie Thrive, you know: “Follow the money.” Follow the money. And then for some reason, little minds want to control other people. You know, I— I can’t— you know, that’s weird. Weird, weird.

Yeah. I was talking to my friend Josh yesterday. The silver lining— like, the good that came out of this to me— is that, yeah, I see more people outside. And I— I’m less on Instagram and social media. I’m going outside more, even myself, and that’s— that’s a big benefit.

And yeah, there’s— there’s that aspect. And then people are becoming more aware of their health. Like, I have a supplement line. I sell vitamin E and K2-7, and my sales are increasing and I’m doing well.

Right.

And you know, I’m not fear-mongering like saying, “You need my supplements to be healthy,” but I’m just talking about health in general, and people are just more open, right? To health.

Right, exactly. I mean, it’s, you know, you have to laugh. There is a silver lining, and— and things are happening the way they’re happening. And— and so here’s a great spiritual lesson I learned:

Instead of complaining about what isn’t or wasn’t, you just accept what is and— and take it from there.

And to me, that was profound. I realized it about six months ago. Instead of complaining about what wasn’t, to just accept what is.

You know, like, for when you go— when, if you— like in my company, you look at it and say, “Well, there’s all these problems and dot dot dot…” Yeah, well, let’s pretend we just landed here, and let’s fix it. We don’t want to complain about it, because complaining— we can— we can do the research later. Let’s just— what do we need to do to get things running smoothly?

I like that. Yeah, I think homesteading and— and is a big part of it. And planting fruit trees. But just homesteading and getting more self-sufficient. That’s what I’m working on here. Got goose and chickens and greenhouse and stuff.

And yeah, you’re— you’re having the time of your life. And that’s great.

Yeah, I’m trying to inspire others. Um, so what about the— oh, sorry, go ahead.

But you know, like— like, it’s funny, you know, like, people will complain about the Relax Sauna tent. And— and they then see we’re the only— we’re the only portable sauna that does not have any plastic in it. The only one. All the other ones, as far as I can tell, all— you know, they have corrugated plastic holding up their tents.

Our tents pop up in one— in 20 seconds. Okay? They don’t take— there’s— there’s no corrugated plastic in our sauna tent. And all the other ones do. And they complain about the Relax Sauna. And they complain about EMF, when the corrugated plastic in their tent is probably…

Anyway, I don’t know the data, but I prefer to talk about the track record that the Relax Sauna has had in the United States for 18 years, with over 800 video testimonies on YouTube, with— with 20 to 40,000 customers of the Relax Sauna, all pretty happy. And— and we’re going strong. And— and— and it’s— it just— it works. It works. It’s a product. It cleanses and detoxifies.

Have you had testimonials— I got questions about— does it help with weight loss, eczema, varicose veins, like spider veins? You had testimonials about those things?

All. All of them. We’ve had three or four different people— testimonies— who’ve lost 50 to 100 pounds or more. One lady said she lost a pound a week for two years. Another— another lady lost about a hundred, I think, 85 pounds in like six months or— or a year, I’m not sure.

Another man that I know— and I know all these people personally— lost a lot of weight as well. 100— he was about 300 pounds, and now he’s about 180 to 210. And not only that— it— it helped transform their whole diet.

See, it’s just the tip of the iceberg. You start feeling healthier, and now you have the strength. You know, you— you— it mobilizes you to— to— to be sensitive enough that when you eat sugar, it doesn’t feel good anymore. Because you’re cleansing the body, so now you don’t want to eat sugar. You don’t eat— want to eat white flour. You don’t want to eat foods that are deficient of nutrients. And so, it’s— it’s a great effect.

In terms of spider veins— yes, we’ve had good success with that. With varicose veins— um, the Relax Sauna, again, it increases the microcirculation, so it gets rid of diabetic ulcers. Uh, uh, it— it— it can get rid of MRSA.

We have a sister product that is a medical device. See, the— the— the one of the radiators alone in the Relax Sauna is used in a stand-up with five, uh, rolls on it— you know, five whatever— and it’s a rollaway thing that you can put directly on a wound or a diabetic ulcer.

And this one lady who— who sells a forty thousand dollar infrared sauna— um, and she said her— she bought the Relax Sauna Sky Eye Radiator, and her mom was on antibiotics for eight months and could not get rid of the MRSA. And in four weeks— four and a half weeks— the Relax Sauna Radiator, the— the Sky Eye Radiator, which is a medical device— and there’s two of those radiators in the Relax Sauna, but the Relax Sauna is not a medical device, okay— so this got rid of the MRSA and healed the wound in four and a half weeks after eight and a half months of antibiotics couldn’t do it. Couldn’t do a thing.

And so the pictures— those are wild.

Yeah. Yeah, and— and diabetic ulcers and any kind of wounds, you know. Even the sauna— if you have small diabetic ulcers, you get in the sauna. If you have a large one— a really large— like— like a two inch by one and a half inch, you know, oval, you know— then just buy the radiator. Even try the table lamp. But the radiator is a professional model. It is a medical device. You know, it’s been a medical device since 2006. And it’s, uh— it’s effective.

It’s— the— the Relax Sauna generator deserves the Nobel Prize. What they did, what they accomplished— I mean, they— they plugged into some kind of supernatural energy. I don’t know what they did, but there’s no other radiator that can make you feel this good this quickly, and that can do what it does.

That’s really interesting. Yeah, and I see you have Momentum 98 and you can learn more about it. You have, like, the little brochure and all the things that it does. And yeah, Relax Sauna— you just sit there on the couch with it, right?

Yeah. Momentum98.com was my original health food store that we still have the website up—1980. And then for people who want to know the Relax Saunas— RelaxSaunas.com.

And you’ve got a code that they can use, don’t you? On RelaxSaunas.com?

Yeah.

Yeah, what’s that code?

Yeah, Blackburn, you know.

Okay, Blackburn. And they save a hundred bucks?

I think so, yeah. Right. Yeah. And— and that will— that will help them for economic reasons. And also, you know, it will show us how— how effective that this, uh, radio interview— or not radio, but this, uh, audio interview is because— but— but it’s— it’s going to make a big, big difference in your life.

I think we give a 30-day money-back guarantee on it. And I mean, it’s— it’s— it’s— it has transformed thousands of people’s lives and their health within a week or two. I mean, people are amazed in two, three days how much better they feel. And you know that from your experiences. I mean, you told me that. What did you tell me in a text the other day?

Yeah, just super relaxed. I mean, the name is perfect— the Relax Sauna— because that’s the main effect I feel. I think just because it’s mirroring those far infrared wavelengths back onto me, but the relaxation effect is multiplied compared to any other sauna I’ve used, including the wooden ones.

Because I think that’s an important point to make about the big— you know, uh, what are they usually— hemlock wood— like Costco wooden saunas or whatever— is they’re not reflecting the infrared. And so it’s just sending them out from those panels, and some of it’s hitting you, some of it’s not. Some of it’s just hitting the wood and just being absorbed, right? It’s not even reflecting back to you. So you’re— it’s really inefficient.

Yeah, you have to be in front of the panel for it to work. So if you’re in a wooden sauna with a mirror— not a mirror, but with a— a window in front of you— you’re not getting any far infrared in that part of your body. And if you’re in a two-person sauna and you’re sitting way on one side, the— you know, on the right side— then the left side is not— it’s— it’s too far away to really make the impact that you want to make.

And so there’s— that’s just one of about a dozen reasons why the Relax Sauna is— is more effective. And you know, I told you the story about the lady who said she had never experienced such a deep profound sense of relaxation, you know, having owned a wooden sauna for five years and been in it many times.

But it’s really funny— there’s a joke I can tell on myself. We’ve been selling the Relax Sauna at shows for about eight years— this is about 10 years ago— and I asked one lady how she felt after she got out, and she said, “Relaxed.” And then eight minutes later, I asked another lady who got out next, “How do you feel?” “Relaxed.” And then— and then I still— still didn’t have an impression yet. And when the third lady eight minutes later came out and said, “How do you feel?” and she said, “Relaxed,” I said, “Oh shit, that’s why they call it the Relax Sauna.” I never put two and two together. So that’s sort of funny.

It is. That’s hilarious. Yeah, sometimes it’s just that easy. Well, Dr. Young questions— these are—

Yeah, Dr. Young likes to call it real. Dr. Young, Roberto Young, keeps on calling it “the real sauna” because it’s real. It actually is real.

I love it. Um, so someone asked, is it easy to fold up and put away in between sessions? They said they don’t have much space.

But it doesn’t take up that much space anyway. But no, I have it in a little corner in my bathroom.

Yes, two feet eight— two eight— two feet eight inches by two feet nine inches. But— but I can— I can— if you do beat-the-clock on me, I can tear it down in 55 seconds.

Awesome.

It takes about two, three minutes for me to pop it up and get it all set, and about 55 seconds or a minute to tear it down. But that’s it going at high neck wreck— at really redneck speed or whatever you want to say. But uh—

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s really fast. It— it just pops right up. And we got— you know, I got a video on YouTube of me setting it up and tearing it down— about two or three of them from about 10 years ago.

Awesome. And is it important for the head to sweat? Someone asked.

The head’s gonna sweat. With— with your head out, your head’s gonna— that’s the first thing that starts sweating. I got pictures of people at the— at the booth and— and they’re— they got so much sweat, you know, especially bald men, you can tell. I mean, the sweat is just pouring. I mean— and— and their head’s out.

And again, I like to say we’re pro-choice. We’re the only green sauna because we recirculate the— the light because of the mirrors. And we’re the pro-choice sauna because we give you the choice to put your head in or out. And even if you’re six feet six tall, you can still duck your head, you know, maybe for three, four minutes. And then you say, “Okay.”

It’ll take 10 minutes for your sinuses to clear, but if you stick your head in— in two minutes, it’ll clear.

I’ve experienced that, definitely. Um, I don’t know if this question is applicable, but what temperature does it heat to?

That— that’s a great— that’s a great question. Because again, the fear-mongering thing comes in. A doctor will say, “You want it to be 105,” “You want it to be 110,” “You want it to be 130,” “You want it to be 140,” or “You need it to be 170.” No.

You want to be comfortable. Because maybe in the Finnish saunas, you want it to be hot. But in a far infrared sauna, you— the— the increase of core temperature— that’s where the magic happens.

And so, like I said, when you’re in the sauna and you’re too hot after 22 minutes, we have— I call it STC— sophisticated temperature control. You unzip the zipper and you find a temperature you’re— you’re comfortable at.

Now, I would say that within the first three to five minutes, your temperature in the Relax Sauna is between 130 and 140 degrees. And I’ve experienced— slowly but surely— it— it will creep up there and get to be 150, 160, you know. And it can get up to 169, okay. But that’s too hot for me, you know.

And so you just unzip the zipper and make sure you’re self-comfortable. And that’s the best thing. You want to be comfortable. And then the magic of the increasing the core temperature— that does the magic.

So if you’re too hot, unzip the zipper. You know, you don’t need— I mean, in the temperature, it does get up to 130, 140, which is— a lot of people want it to get there. But you don’t need to be a lot hotter. And the temperature in the sauna is— is almost like, um, a distraction. It does not matter what the outside temperature is.

Now, maybe in one percent of the instances, it does. You know, I could be wrong. But this is what I currently believe. And— and— and I’m not attached to any belief that I have, because you know— you know, in every belief, you have the letters L-I-E. So every belief— B-E-L-I-E-F— there’s a lie in every belief.

It’s only a temporary truth. Because belief is temporary— it means you don’t know. And I’m into knowingness. And the only knowingness you have is in the present moment, connecting to that which— that still, small voice within you— and that knows everything. Because that’s what you truly are.

Awesome. All right, well— last question. Any warnings? Are saunas safe for young children? Well, uh, women that are pregnant? Um, anything to be careful with?

There was a Finnish study that came out, and I was so grateful it finally came out and said that pregnant women are okay in saunas. And you know, the first year we were selling the Relax Sauna, one lady, you know, came to the booth and said, “Boy, I did it through my whole pregnancy. It was great. Baby came out super, super healthy.”

And then everywhere you read— I mean, even the naturopathic doctors, even the functional medical doctors— they’re all brainwashed to believe that if— that if you’re pregnant, you shouldn’t go into a sauna. And I don’t know where in the world that came from.

But I did discover many, many years ago that the only thing that’s safe to do if you’re pregnant is to sit on your bed and twiddle your thumbs, because everything else is dangerous. And the lawyers have gotten into everything. It’s like, you know, the lawyers, you know…

So we— I— I would say, you know, uh, consult your doctor, and hopefully you have an alternative doctor. And— and— and do it gingerly.

If you— if you love saunas and you’ve been doing saunas for years and you’re pregnant, well why change now? If you’ve never done saunas— and see, no company wants to be blamed for a miscarriage. No company wants to be blamed for a miscarriage.

So as long as you accept responsibility and you listen to your body and do it gingerly, you should be okay. But again, I’m not saying— and would never say— that you can do it. I’m saying a Finnish study showed that you could, and that’d be fine. And the far infrared is a whole lot safer than a Finnish sauna for— you know, because it also increases core temperature.

So— and— and as for little kids, I say the Relax Sauna is— is good for anyone from age one to a hundred. And if you’re 105, probably it’s still good. But— but basically, but— uh, we go to autism conferences. We’ve been to four or five. And the kids go in. They sit on their mom’s lap. Uh, they sit on their dad’s lap. They— they’re age three or four or five, eight, nine, ten. You don’t have to do a full sweat.

They can go in for five or ten minutes. They can keep the zipper open. We have two switches. We have high dose and low dose. With one switch on, only one of the radiators is on. And you can— you can have the left radiator or the right radiator.

Or I always put them both on, but if I want to meditate in it and not— and not be brought back into my body, I’ll put one radiator on, and I’ll be able to meditate for 25 minutes. But if I— if I meditate and I get out after eight, ten minutes, I come back because it’s too hot.

So— so you can just put one radiator on and do a 25-minute meditation in there. It’s really not meditation— it’s— it’s a contemplation. Most people have no clue what meditation is. But it’s— it’s sitting still and getting to that point where you feel grounded, and then from there do things that can move you into higher states. And that— we could always go into that later.

Awesome, awesome fellas. I really appreciate your time and all of your knowledge and sharing your wisdom and expertise. And I really think you have the best sauna out there, and I think it’s really a place to start with health. Because I get messages every day— like, people, you know, ask me pretty much for medical advice. And I say, I can’t give that, but what I— what I would do, what I recommend, where I started was: start sweating, and start getting— get a shower filter, get— drink clean water that I have on my website.

But oh yeah, you know, just start with water. And sweating is related to water. So if someone just focuses on the water aspect of their life, their life will massively improve in all areas.

Well, Dr. Gerald Pollack discovered that light actually makes the water— uh, the fourth phase of water. The— the light in the infrared light is actually the most effective light for— for getting, uh, the water molecules to do something special.

So it’s— it’s really exciting, uh, you know, what light— and you know, like again, pure— pure earth, pure water, pure air, and pure fire. And that’s the light. That’s the healing. That’s the fire— infrared light.

I love it. Awesome, Phillip. We’ll stick around, um, while I close out the show. And thanks so much for coming on.

Great, it’s been— it’s been fun. It’s been really just a delight.

Okay, thanks so much. Hang on while I close it out here.

And remember, the best thing about the Relax Sauna are those side effects of joy and euphoria that is so difficult to get from another sauna. And that— that’s what makes the Relax Sauna super, super special. That clarity of mind and the joy and the freedom that you feel after getting out— you almost feel euphoric.

Philip Wilson—very interesting man. That was a really fun chat. I love people like that. People that are older chronologically—he’s definitely not old, older biologically—but chronologically older with that attitude and just zest for life. That’s really inspiring to me, because that’s definitely how I will be when I’m that age and beyond. So, Philip Wilson—awesome guy, really fun to talk to.

And it’s obvious that we have spiritual differences. I’m a Christian that looks to Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and guidance and voice. But we can still have a respectful conversation, and I don’t think there will ever be a time where I have a guest on the show where we agree on everything—with health and spirituality and psychology and philosophy and all of that. And that’d be boring, right?

But I just always like to say that because people might say, “Matt, you know, he’s saying all these things and you’re a Christian, you’re just letting him say…” Well, yeah, because he’s a guest on my show. And it’s obviously health related—Mitolife Radio—but there’s also a spiritual component. Emotional, mental health is more than just physical. We know this. And there will be differences with spiritual philosophies, and that’s fine. As I said, I can still have a respectful conversation with somebody on the show.

So—and we all have a journey, right? For me, my journey led back to Jesus Christ. And if you want to go back, you can see my interview with Doreen Virtue—she is an ex-New Ager that returned to Jesus. And then also Steven Bancarz, and Steven has just an awesome YouTube channel. He has a great testimonial. If you just search YouTube: “Steven Bancarz testimonial of coming back to Jesus.”

But you have to find what works for you, right? And what works for me is Christianity and having that strong foundation and relationship with Christ. It’s not a religion—it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ. And I think just as others are very open about their spiritual beliefs, I too will be open. And I think we as Christians should be open with our spiritual beliefs and not be afraid to quote scripture, like John 14:6 that says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.”

You know, there’s a lot of truth in the Holy Scripture, especially for me the New Testament. Especially the New Testament, because that’s the New Covenant, and it’s different from the Old Testament.

So anyway—little rant there. Back to health and light and far infrared light.

I really enjoyed the part where we talked about non-native EMF and his beliefs—even about the virus and fear, and fear of non-native electromagnetic fields—and how that’s actually worse. People just freak out about the smallest things when they’re missing the biggest things.

Like, for example, why would you worry about some non-native EMF maybe hitting your feet in a half-hour, hour sauna session—and, as I say in the interview, not worry about having a cell phone in your pocket that’s not on airplane mode? Or a cell phone on your lap when you’re driving? Or putting a microwave transmitter—cell phone—to your head, even for a 30-second phone call, which does way more damage than an hour sauna session, even with EMFs.

People just don’t think about these things. Or how about showering without a shower filter? Or not drinking pure water?

And this is actually something that I wanted to make a point of and go further into. As I said in the interview—if people just started with the water aspect of their life, which most people don’t have clean water outside their body or inside their body (goes hand in hand of course)—but getting a Pristine Hydro water filter, even the travel system. 800 bucks. Put it on credit. That’s what I did. Whatever you have to do—get that unit.

You can make an undercounter unit. If that’s all you can afford, get their shower filter—the dual KDF. I have that on my website as well. You just replace the filters once a year. It’s just a small investment, and then you just replace the filters. And now you have clean bathing and drinking water. That is huge.

And then if you get this sauna—and it’s 1100 bucks with my discount—now you have a sauna, shower filter, and clean drinking water. Now you can give your body a water change.

And this is what I started doing years ago. And even though I was protein deficient—because I wasn’t eating animal flesh—and I was deficient in B-complex vitamins, because supplements aren’t the same as animal flesh, and I wasn’t getting bioavailable copper, which is in beef liver, and I was just really deficient in a lot of really key nutrients—

I was still getting out the toxins in the sauna. That was, I believe, keeping me somewhat clear. Because a lot of people that are on these extreme diets are going to be deficient in pretty much everything—especially vitamin E, vitamin K2, magnesium. They’re going to have trace mineral deficiencies, tons of different problems going on.

And then stack on top of that phthalates and dioxin and PCBs and radiation and heavy metals, because they don’t sweat and they don’t dump these things. That’s where you get the extreme fog. And I’m sure a lot of you have seen that when you’re trying to have a conversation with someone and there’s just a wall in their eyes. And you see you’re not getting any further. And it’s not a—it’s a mental block. It’s a mental block that’s not allowing the information in.

And that might be a good thing, because a lot of information out there is BS. But if you’re in a safe space, you’re in your home, you’re with trusted people, then it’s not a good thing. Because you want the information to get in.

And so yeah—drinking water filter, shower filter, far infrared sauna like the Relax Sauna—that’s an amazing start for your health. And it’s way better, as I talk about, than spending 1700 bucks on liposomal “cube detox” glutathione, vitamin C, whatever.

I’m not even a fan of IVs. I think maybe in extreme contexts, but I think people jump to these extreme things way before saying, “Hmm, I wonder if the sulfuric and nitric acid that I’m drinking and bathing in is causing an immunosuppressive response?”

“I wonder if being severely magnesium bicarbonate deficient is turning off 42% of my enzyme activity that are magnesium bicarbonate dependent, and causing all of these issues that I’m having—all of these symptoms that I’m having?”

So, start at the ground level. Start at the basement floor. Start at the foundation with water. And yes, you can give yourself a water change. Just like if you’ve kept fish tanks—you get the bad water out and you put the good water in.

And I still drink coffee every day. I pretty much don’t take a day off. And coffee’s a diuretic, it’s bad, it’s making you dehydrated—is it? Or is it getting the unstructured water out of your body? That’s something to ponder.

So, back to non-native EMFs too, to finish on that. If you keep your system strong and then stack some of these things— I would say the biggest thing with non-EMF is that water. That trio I just talked about: the water filter—drinking water filter—the shower filter, and the sauna.

If you can just get that under control, then your system will be a lot more resilient to these non-native electromagnetic fields that are causing biological harm, as Martin Pall lays out in lectures all over YouTube.

And then if you’re a man and you want to protect your testes—which are one of the things that gets hit the hardest, the reproductive organs, man or woman, with EMFs—you can go to my website: Fawns EMF-reducing underwear, three-pack. I have a discount—116 bucks, you get three pairs. Get two of those, and you have— you know, I mean, I guess you could wear the same pair. They’re pretty antibacterial. But I have one for each day of the week. And that’s all I wear for underwear.

And for women, you can go to lessemf.com, and they have women’s EMF-protecting clothing. They’re definitely a little more expensive. There’s definitely a market for EMF protection for women that’s just huge. That would blow up if someone started that business. And I’d be a part of that also.

BlueShield—they have multiple different devices that can help people out. The Tesla series, they have a portable and a cube. If you just get those two to start—because that’s a common question I get, which BlueShield products should I get?—the cube, and then the portable for when you go out. But the most important unit is the one at home because that’s where you sleep. So you definitely want a powerful plug-in that you can keep at home, and then ideally have a portable for when you go out. And that’s your umbrella so you don’t get wet with EMF rain, metaphorically speaking.

So those are huge. And then also the Magnetico Sleep Pad—I interviewed Dean Bonlie back on the podcast. I’ve been sleeping on these for years. Huge fan. Kevin Trudeau actually, in his book Natural Cures They Don’t Want You to Know About, this has been talked about for a very long time. I think they’ve been around for just about 20 years, and I’ve been sleeping on the 20 gauss for a few years now. I started with the 10 gauss. Huge, huge difference.

And they have research on their website to back up the chelation with these devices. I call them devices, but there’s nothing plugged in. It’s just amplifying the Earth’s magnetism that is weaker. And it’s natural, it’s not harmful. You only get hit with the negative polarity.

On the product page—actually, I have an old Magnetico Sleep review video when I was living in the RV. I think it’s a half hour long. There might be some New Age concepts in there because I was a New Ager back then, but overall, I’m sure there’s some good information there.

So we covered EMF blocking clothes, BlueShield, Magnetico Sleep Pad—I mean you’re really covered at that point. And then remember, the foundation is water. So, drinking, bathing, and then do the water change in the sauna.

Magnesium—if you have that water filter, the amazing thing about that travel water system for 800 bucks with my discount is you can get the electrolyte balance powder and start making your own concentrate. Because there’s already magnesium bicarbonate in the water, because it’s bumped up with the filter, but you can make a concentrate and you do shots throughout the day.

And how much do you take? There’s no rhyme or reason, there’s no strict dose. It really is the more the better, but just do the bowel tolerance test. So if you go to the bathroom, then just back off the dosage.

And you can get the Stetzer dirty electricity filters as well. That’s more of a context thing. I find if you’re in a more rural area, you may not need them. You really have to test with their meter. But I have a Dave Stetzer interview way back, and that’s a really affordable way to do it. Even if you just did the bedroom—put a few of those Stetzer filters in—and that’s EMFs.

And then if you want to get the Somavedic, they have multiple different devices. And I had them on the show as well. And it’s endless how much you can stack, and it’s really about staying ahead.

And so you think about people that are doing no mitigation—being vitamin E and K2 and magnesium deficient and not having shilajit and the minerals and all these aspects—they’re getting hit so hard. But if you just start implementing what you can and as much as you can financially, for the most part—because you need money to get a lot of these tools—then you start feeling the difference. You start feeling resilience to all of these things that are being thrown at us.

So everything works together. Definitely being on my CLF protocol helps—reducing those accumulations that inhibit oxygen from getting to the tissue. And then remember that you need copper to utilize oxygen. So a lot of people talk about getting oxygen, oxygen—but how do you use oxygen?

And Morley Robbins—the interview—definitely recommend listening to my first podcast interview with Morley Robbins. I would say that was one of my best. A lot of people got a lot out of that interview, and it was called How Minerals Run the Show. And he talks a lot about iron, copper, and magnesium. He says those are the only three minerals that truly matter, as people get all strung out on all the different elements and you play the element game. But how about just focusing on copper?

And you don’t supplement it. You get it from bee pollen, whole food vitamin C, or beef liver. There’s the only sources. And I would say if you’re doing bee pollen, you better be doing a ton of it. Or whole food vitamin C. Beef liver, to me, is my favorite source of copper.

And copper allows the mitochondria to use oxygen. You have to use it. That’s the cytochrome c oxidase. And it works with red light. And there’s this beautiful interplay—also vitamin E helps with the mitochondria and red light. It all works together in this really amazing symphony.

So, check out all that stuff—stuff to think about.

I just threw up on my website the MRET water activator. This is from my friend Brandon that he has through Shen Blossom. And this is the last step after you put it through the Pristine Hydro filter. If you want to vortex it again—the filter already vortexes it—but if you want to vortex it longer, I think Mayu just came out with a new device. I’m playing with that one. Or you could just vortex it with a magnetic stir. There’s different methods.

And then this would be the last step. It’s hitting it with ELF—low frequencies. And there’s a patent: 6022479 by Igor Smirnoff. It’s called Molecular Resonance Effect Technology—MRET. And all my water goes through this final stage. And I do feel the difference.

And so, as I said, stack what you can and do what you can. Definitely the sauna has been a game-changer for my health journey. I would say the clarity that’s brought me to build my business, to just think clearer, to make better and better decisions—I mean, you can’t think properly if you have all these accumulations in your body. And the sauna gets rid of a few groups of accumulations.

And then how about the calcification? How are you going to get rid of that? How about the lipofuscin? How about the fibrosis? And that’s where my CLF protocol comes in. And so it’s really about removing these accumulations of toxicity.

And most people just overlook the polyunsaturated fats, which to me, I think is the plant-based diet. Because you’re looking at nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, soy, vegetables—polyunsaturated fats. That’s a PUFA diet. And that’s going to complex with iron. Because you’re drinking and bathing iron—spring water, iron well water, tons of iron—raised with iron fortification. It doesn’t leave you. And that complexes with all these PUFAs. And that’s why I call the vegan diet the PUFA diet. It really is.

And the result of that, it’s not pretty. You get lipofuscin. You see it on the forehead, you see it on the forearms—these brown age spots, steroid pigments—that are in spots that get a lot of sunlight, ultraviolet light. Because ultraviolet light makes it spread like wildfire. Aluminum does as well. Different toxins. But mainly ultraviolet light and aluminum. Estrogen—which the PUFAs increase.

So check out his website: relaxsaunas.com. I think he has some great products on there. If you just started with his silver sauna—the Relax Far Infrared Sauna—use the discount code BLACKBURN and you save 100 bucks. Definitely an amazing investment. And as he said, it lasts for years and years—what did he say, 15 or 20 years?

That’s a worthwhile investment. You could even set it up in front of your computer, in front of your TV or whatever. Put on YouTube, do your phone calls—and that thing, it’s so versatile. You don’t have to just sit in there and do nothing.

If you’re super busy and you have to get stuff done or you want to keep researching—that’s what I did for years. And I would fully sit inside and listen to interviews and different things. Did that for a long time.

So the Relax Sauna—you can see on my website: matt-blackburn.com—as well as all my other recommended products. My favorite air filters. I have the ChiliPad on there. Blue-blocking glasses. Beef liver capsules. Bone broth, which I drink every single day. My favorite collagen. My favorite sea salt. My Mitolife products, where you can also go to mitolife.co and see those.

I just released a vitamin K2 in the MK-7 form, which is only found in fermented soy natto and aged cheese. Most people aren’t eating either of those foods. So two capsules of my Purely K has 400 micrograms of K2-7. And this has multiple mitochondrial effects, multiple effects on the bone.

I link to a lot of studies on the product page where you can check that out. Beneficial for the metabolism, the whole body. I mean, when we’re talking about the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K—if you have the magnesium, you have the shilajit, and you have E and K, and then you’re eating animal products for the A and D—you’re really set. And you’ll start to see everything getting better with your health.

I also want to mention—I just put up on the website the Shen Blossom products. The Protect Cough Syrup and the Reishi Syrup. All the syrups are awesome, but those two in particular—the Reishi Syrup on ice cream is just mind-blowing.

And I’ve had on the website for a while the Immune Throat Sprays. I think that’s essential to have in your cabinet. If you speak a lot, like myself, and you just talk a lot—and you know, that’s dehydrating with your throat, right? You’re just losing a lot of water. And so that spray really helps to hydrate the throat and just keep it coated and soothed and all that stuff.

And actually, the next product—the SinuOrega—right below the Shen Blossom products, the nasal spray—unbelievable. Like those two, the Immune Throat Spray and the Nasal Spray from North American Herb and Spice—is an incredible combo to keep your sinuses and just that whole area working at the best capacity.

So I’m really happy with how this show is growing. It gives me a voice to vent sometimes with a lot of the craziness that I see in the biohacking community or the health community. And I like being controversial and a trailblazer and just bouncing ideas off of people.

Because I listen to other shows and I just get bored. Extreme Health Radio is really an exception. I think Justin and Kate are doing awesome things on their show and having awesome people on and sharing great big-picture perspectives. So definitely check out Extreme Health Radio.

My friend John just launched a show called Rewild Miami. Definitely check that one out as well.

So I really appreciate the community that I’m in. And I have to go build a goat stand, so I’m gonna head out. And I’ll leave you with today’s quote by Sang Whang from the book Reverse Aging:

“A married couple sleeping together lives long. I am sure that there are some emotional benefits to help them. But another reason may be that while sleeping they act as transmitters and receivers of far-infrared waves to each other. If you sleep alone, you act as a transmitter without receiving any far-infrared waves. People say that so-and-so has good vibrations. Well, when you were sitting together with someone, talking, you were sending away and receiving vibrations of far-infrared radiation.”